An Audit of the System, not of the People - An ISO 9001:2008 Pocket Guide for Every Employee

An Audit of the System, not of the People – ISO 9001:2008 Pocket Guide
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But later found that i actually did not learn what my company wants a proper internal auditor. Today i am still not confident enough with my internal auditing skills. September 2nd, at am. While your experience validates my point, I am sorry that you found yourself the victem of the traditiona ISO Lead Auditor Training paradigm. Take a look and let me knwo if you have any questions. I am looking to train myself as an auditor so that I can go out as an independent contractor, of sorts, and preform external audits for other companies and organizations.

If so, is the online or in-class version preferable if both offer a certification? November 7th, at pm. If you want to learn something useful and not waste a lot of your time and money, the best route would be to take ISO internal auditor training. However, as an individual, you will have a hard time finding the hands-on, customized training that I describe.

It will simply be cost prohibitive.

So your best bet will be to go with a generic public course for ISO internal auditors. If you want to have a expensive certificate to show perpective customers, then you should consider the ISO Lead Auditor Training. November 10th, at am. Really appreciate you sharing this post. There is a lot of confusion about ISO training.

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Especially about ISO auditor training. This post really puts it in perspective. Really thank you! January 14th, at pm. I am glad to see that the issue of ISO lead auditor training resonates with people all over the world. Just goes to show how well the various ISO myths and misconceptions have propogated. Hopefully my message will reach more people like you. I was going through this blog and found things that put me in a dilemma. I wanted to pursue a career as a freelance external lead auditor. Am i seeing this in the right way?? I read the blog contents and comments. Still i couldn convincingly believe it wont work out.

Could you clarify me?? January 18th, at pm. If you want to become a third party auditor working for a registrar, then you need to take the ISO Lead Auditor course. Registrars in general must develop an internal management system that complies with ISO This is what gives registrars the credentials to be a registrar.

However, there are some registrars that are unaccredited. Stay away from these. It appears I am the only one who disagrees with this. I do agree that it is not necessary, but I do think the course adds value for internal auditors. I hear a theme here:.

Internal auditor should know more about ISO than the typical employee. I think it is very beneficial to understand that the a process is a process no matter what industry you work in. Objectives are objectives and customer requirements are customer requirements.

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I think by forcing ourselves to step out of our environment and see a different perspective, it allows one to more clearly see the intent of the standard. When we only see the QMS as it pertains to one company or one industry, we often put blinders on and lose track of intent. It is an asset, not a waste, for an employee that thinks about the standard and not just spoon-fed what works for that company only.

That being said, the formal training is great if look at it from the right perspective. Again, not necessary, but surely not a waste.

History of ISO 9001

Buy Now. ISO based quality management system requirements and ISO based environmental management system requirements have impact on nearly every employee. It is planning and carrying out production and service work under controlled conditions. Jim Werner Voting member to the U. There are items available.

February 1st, at pm. I agree with your comments in principle.


Understanding ISO requirements and having a diverse perspective are valuable. However, the point of the article is that most people are misled into believing that ISO Lead Auditor training will give them these skills. This is simply not true in real life. The key is to learn these skills and apply them immediately in the workplace.

This approach also caters more effectively to adult learning. It has been a very satisfying post-retirement career for the past 3 years now and keeping me busy. I only wish that I had seen your blog earlier that I could have put my hard earned money to some better use! May 22nd, at am. I am sorry you experienced some of what I discuss in this article. No company or individual should invest in this train. I hope you will come back to the blog and share more of your thoughts and experiences.

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I think the readers of this blog can benefit greatly for you ISO experience and knowledge. May 25th, at am. Thank God I stumbled on your blog while searching for a lead auditor training course in Healthcare before actually committing funds. I desire to offer third party audit services to medical centres so as to help them improve their services and improve the quality of care in my environment.

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I have been exposed to JCI audit system and first hand experience with them as well as that out of South Africa but I felt I needed some form of formal training to best offer this service BUT with these observations from you, what will your advise be. September 1st, at pm.

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Healthcare quality is a long-standing interest of mine. Audit schemes are really just one part of the healthcare quality equation.


As i expose in this article, ISO Lead Auditor Training is only for those who want to work as third party auditors. It is just a credentialing milestone. An organization must first understand how to build processes that will achieve and sustain its objectives.

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This implies that an organization knows what its measureable objectives are. Unfortunately, this is not the case for many management teams. My advice is to educate yourself in the latest advances in modern management system implementation methodologies , like the Lean QMS. You should learn Lean Management principles and how to apply them within and ISO certification framework. From there you can take your experience and develop robust solutions that are custom-tailored for the healthcare industry in South Africa. December 25th, at am. Internal auditor training should be more appropriate in your case.

December 25th, at pm. Hi, I am considering becoming a third party auditor. I worked for General Motors for 12 years as an internal auditor in a metal fabrication plant among many other quality related assignments. After I retired in I took two years off. The second year I was going crazy without work.

I was hired as the Quality Manager of a small plant near my home. I worked that for a year then took a corporate position helping to implement TS in two of our US plants. On the last day of the year this last December I was downsided due to budgetary concerns. I am working a temporary job with a graphic arts company but have received an offer to be a third party auditor. I am wondering how difficult this lead auditor class is. I have conducted internal audits for a long time and followed every external auditor that came into out plant and learned a lot from them.

Is there anything highly technical in this lead auditor training? From what I am reading on this blog it seems that it should be quite straight forward. I am very familiar with the TS standard and the core tools.